Yes Men and Group Think

Wow, I have not seen such examples of group think and yes men in quite a while.   Allow me to elaborate.  In the old days, people used to comment on blogs that they either agreed with or disagreed with and explain the reasons why.   Then there would be some public commentary and discussion around it, people would see the reactions of both sides, make their own decisions and move on.   That is so passe , and like 2008 and stuff.   The new fad is to hide behind private timelines, block anybody who has any sort of disagreement with you, and then openly bash amongst like minded sheep.

Specifically, one of the pictures in the last round Curbside Confessions showed four recent Truth hair releases with the title “New Styles from TRUTH!?”   Obviously the point of the slide was to suggest that they were somewhat similar in nature – but no point beyond that.   But step back for a minute and examine the reality of the post.   What I did was just showcase 4 styles from Truth in front of over1,000 people.   There was zero commentary on that post outside of a ?.   I am sure that quite a few people were exposed to the styles who had not seen them before, and probably went out to buy them.   So Truth is now convinced that we are destroying his business?   There is a pretty big break between perception and reality there.

His method was to first block both Jelly and I from his timeline, and THEN go off about us just to make sure we can’t speak up about it.   In reality though that is not enough, because he is going to take it one step further and the 4 other people who spoke up to say that either the styles did look similar, or that they tried to support us during the bash fest were also summarily removed from his timeline.   Heaven forbid somebody have an opinion that is different.  I was most upset when one of the nicest people on the grid Tymmerie Thorne was banned for making this statement, ”  They are not identical but certainly similar enough that I wouldn’t buy two of them.”  I mean jesus, that is some sort of revolutionary hardcore Truth bashing there..???

So in hindsight, this is just a really good example of how something can get blown way out of proportion when all you have are a bunch of like minded fan girls running around telling you how great you are.

I would like to take a minute to call out a few people I have come across who have demonstrated the ability to think independently and to thank them for that breath of fresh air.   For the record – many of these have disagreed with me once, or even many times, but I appreciate their honesty and ability to think for themselves.   Thank you Cajsa Lilliehook, Luth Brodie, Daila Holder, Ivey Deschanel, Prad Prathivi, and Moggs Oceanlane.   The world is a better place with you here.    Also, I am sure there are others out there, but these are ones who have made a difference in my own life.

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23 Responses to “Yes Men and Group Think”

  1. I’m not a fan girl…in fact, only really spoke to Truth the first time for yesterday and it was very brief…but since we are talking about people not speaking up I will speak up here, lol. I think they look different. Similarities in length is about all I see.

    Also, sheep are cute. Sheep riding sheep is kind of creepy. That is my important and controversial sheep-puppet opinion.

  2. hawksrock Says:

    LOL, and thank you for commenting Sileny. I respect your opinion and promise to not ban you from future comments here. :p

  3. Uh… it’s always been like this. With plurk and private time lines it is just more in your face.

    Sadly with the rate creators think they have to pump out new products to “stay ahead,” stuff is just going to merge and look similar. The less amount of time you have to sit down and really think about something completely new, the more you end up rehashing old ideas. Creativity just isn’t an endless siphon.

    I doubt it was specifically malicious, just a by-product of the current state of SL content creation.

  4. God i keep getting an error message so if suddenly three comments pop up, please delete the first two. Whatever happened to discourse and discussion in SL. Why does a difference in an opinion have to get so nasty. I mean I was trying to have a discussion once in SLuniverse and I was told my drama was boring. LOL.

    Another thing why is it always so black and white. “If you dont agree with me then you are deleted, banned, blocked, shunned.” Friends have disagreements and differences from time to time but too often I have seen the pattern that one is deleted and/or muted then his or friends follow suit. Then it becomes their team vs your team. IT DOESNT HAVE TO BE LIKE THIS. I have never been “deleted” in RL by friend because we have opposing opinions on a subject. Okay enough said hopefully this will go through.

  5. Truth Hawks Says:

    Lets get to the facts.
    I put my timeline to private which elimated some fans connected to this stupid school yard shit.
    I did not delete anyones comment and it appears the most vocal Dalia (your alt?) deleted her account which seems so odd as then you used that on another of your plurks to say I was talking to myself lol… hahahha witty.

    Lets get the facts of how this eventuated – you and your friends decided to go to my sim on release day last week and act as my customer service reps, uninvited, chatting to every single person who tp’d in. Again haha you are so clever, but other ppl may find this annoying.

    Then this week, after having I said I didn’t appreciate it, JB got her nose out of joint and decided to start plurking about my hair. Wow how unpredictable.

    In total I have plurked regarding this twice. Everyone was welcome to comment up until about 150 comments. You have probably done a total of 8 plurks about me? 2 blog posts… who do you think has the real issue here?

    None of you are my friends in world, basically I have nothing to do with you other than having you on my timeline. Yeah I deleted you off friends after your continuous plurking about me, quite frankly Id rather not see it.

    I haven’t banned you from the shop. But this is my biz, I will do what I think in order to keep things running smoothly there, if that is asking 5 chat spamming ppl to leave then oh well? lol

    And wow now I’m being critisised for releasing too much? lol

  6. Daila Holder Says:

    Actually Truth, I’m Wrath Paine’s alt. It was getting exhausting having two plurk accounts, so I just deleted Daila. I mean once you get in a Plurk disagreement with Truth Hawks, what more is there to accomplish there? 😛

    Honestly, not everything is about you. I know it does seem odd that I deleted last night, but the people that are close to me know the real reason.

    I really have no issue with you, and I hate that this situation makes it appear that I do. I’ve spent almost 3 years in SL being able to maintain a drama free existence. I may have taken a joke too far last weekend, but I’ve already told you twice that there was no ill intent. I was actually very surprised at the attitude I received, and afterwards I begin to see that you may have felt it was a targeted attack on you, when I can assure it was not. Whatever past history you have with Jellybean and Hawks does not concern me. They are both a big part of my Second Life, because I greatly enjoy their intelligence and humor. Your hair has adorned my virtual head many times in the past, and most likely will continue to in the future.

    This comment is my way of saying publicly I have no issue with you.

    Let’s leave it at that?

  7. I think the point of this post has a broader perspective than the situation at hand. People are afraid in sl to offer up an opinion about someone or their products out of fear of stuff like what happened happening to them. Criticism is not well received no matter how constructive it is. And something that starts out as a joke becomes something bigger than it has to be. I see repeated examples of black and white thinking in the blogs, in plurks etc etc. It makes people like me who do have different outlook on second life and the social interactions that occur really afraid to speak up. Friendships are ruined over things like this and they really don’t have to be.

    But honestly I see both sides. From my experiences in photography in SL and RL I can see how an off the cuff, sarcastic remark can be interpreted as a criticism. And LOL I blew up too when this happened to me but I stepped back and saw a few good points of the criticism. But if you put yourself in the public eye and produce the volume as he does, one has to be willing to accept that criticism is inevitable. Lets face it there are a lot of long layered looks in the store. Now is that a bad thing, of course not but some may think “wow another long layered look” no matter how beautiful it is or how different it is from a release a couple weeks back. You gotta roll with the criticism and maybe take the points that may have some validity and use it to improve your subsequent products. And oh, i would love some ponytails and retro updos thank you very much lol.

    Yeah I am commenting about Truth LOL and I dont care what people think. haha.

  8. Truth Hawks Says:

    Well my name is mentioned 5 times throughout Hawks’s post, so I guess they are just taking the angle of using me as an example? lol

    Also, kind of hypocritical when JB removed 2 commenters (Cassy & Katey) for disagreeing with her (but she won’t admit to that of course).

    I actually haven’t been rude to anyone in plurk, yet ppl on JB’s timeline have been called sheep, fan girls, dumb etc so I guess I’m not on your level of maturity.

    Apparently talented ppl can be assholes, so what is your excuse?

  9. Yeah maybe they are using you as an example but this mob attack when people think differently from the crowd happens all the time. My personal contact with members of the fashion community is limited to like 5 people. But even though I don’t interact with many people in Fashion in SL because the networking in SL I hear about the funny drama that occurs in the blogs, plurks etc. Its really a lot watching young and the restless to be honest. I find it fascinating. We have a little microcosm of high school part two right in front of our eyes.

    And the fangirls? they exist everyone knows but no one has the balls to say it publicly. Instead they make fun of the people who fit that category in IMs or private plurks. And the two people you named I don’t know them and they are not on my time line so I have no clue what they plurk about in general. But I do know fangirlish behavior when I see it. I find fan girling disingenuous and suspect. But this is the price of PERCEIVED fame, real or virtual. And I think you would have the insight to know who truly is a fan girl and who is a supporter.

  10. Truth Hawks Says:

    Unfortunately, if you are going to have strong opinions about someone else, people may object with your viewpoint. You can call them “sheep” and “fan girls” but perhaps they just disagree with you?

    You, I, everyone knows this didn’t start with your “?”, why not just admit to the reality?

    You can try and blindsight ppl with your bs…good luck to you!

  11. But it wasn’t about YOU it was about your hair. God I wish people would get as angry about health care reform or Darfur as they do about freakin unreal hair. And I can see that you can interpret that as attacking you but they weren’t. And I am trying to say there fangirls and there are supporters, there is an essential difference between the two. Supporters are genuine admirers of what a person does and approaches them with no pretense or agendas. They like your photos or your acting abilities or your hair haha and thats about it. Fangirls want to also possess the creative person in a way – be their friend, their lover or what have you to simply say so and so is my friend. I dont know the motivations these people you are referring to and I dont care but they fangirls do exist in a virtual world.

    “You, I, everyone knows this didn’t start with your “?”, why not just admit to the reality?” This i dont really understand but thats ok. LOL. I guess you are saying there was a bigger agenda than plurking hair. Well maybe there was but you are also responsible for your reaction to it. Again when you put yourself out there you have to be willing to roll with what comes at ya. I know I do HA (BAN, MUTE, DELETE). Okay I have said enough. Take care Mr. Hawks.

    • oh and for the record i am not saying that NO ONE should defend you. I think they should if they feel as though you are being wronged and I would never think negatively of them. And if someone defends you that does not make them a “fangirl”. That is hardly a criteria for fangirldom what so ever. I am just discussing the concept in general.

  12. I also have a great deal of respect for those in our little microcosm of society who speak their minds and make their points without the slash and burn style that seems so prevalent these days. I had a weak moment of temptation myself recently when I considered deleting a plurk friend for making rude and stupid comments about someone I consider a dear friend. I stopped myself – I don’t want to judge. So many people have a tendency to judge and ban others by the relationships they share, instead of making the assessment of a person’s character themselves.

  13. THIS IS CALLED DISCOURSE PEOPLE! God how refreshing.

  14. ♥JellyBean♥ Says:

    I honestly wasn’t going to comment here because I’m tired of explaining myself over & over. My grandpa use to always say “I hate to chew my cabbage twice” meaning if you didn’t get it the first time, chances are you’ll never swallow it.

    I never remove, NEVER remove people from plurk for having differing opinions, just as Gogo was so kind to point out in my plurk “Gogo says i swear to you jb doesnt remove people for having a diff opinion, or people she hates. proof? i’m still here lol” http://www.plurk.com/p/1quybr where Cassy & Katey asked why they were removed. For one, I don’t think Cassy agreed with either sides on this issue, but yes I removed her and Katey and I never denied that. So really? You want me to admit it again? Okay, yes I removed them. Happy now? I also removed like 3 others. Now since this bullshit, I am again over 200 cause people love the drama and I’ll be cutting again.

    In fact here’s a plurk where Katey was apparently aware that *I* do try to keep my friends at 200 as she commented & it was posted on June 14, 2009 at 03:03AM… Way before this mess. http://www.plurk.com/p/10pw9l

    Here’s another example posted on June 11, 2009 at 02:58PM – http://www.plurk.com/p/105678

    So how do I choose who stays & who goes? There’s really no freaking formula other than exactly what I already said in my PUBLIC timeline:

    JeℓℓyBean™ says exactly – but if you follow my plurks you’ll know I do remove emo tears, tech spammers, whiners & sometimes I remove some to try to stay

    JeℓℓyBean™ says at 200 or less.

    JeℓℓyBean™ says Also like I stated before, I remove those that fan me with a private timeline. I could care less if you agree w/Truth. lol

    JeℓℓyBean™ says and that brings up another point: why does it mean you did anything to anyone if you get removed? Mayhaps I like to keep my list low.

    JeℓℓyBean™ says Plurk is an outlet of entertainment for me, like oh… SL or television. If I’m not entertained, I reserve the right to remove people.

    JeℓℓyBean™ says I see people all the time with 400-500+ friends. To me that’s insane, you’re honestly not keeping up with every plurk or everyone on your

    JeℓℓyBean™ says list, and if u are… Gosh, go get some sunshine, you obviously spend way too much time online.

    I know that it’s so much easier to blame this on a “personal vendetta” that you’ve manufactured in your little head but if it were YOU or any other designer doing the same thing, I’d again state my opinion on my plurk again. You see this is why I stay public so that others can come & say HEY JELL I DISAGREE and THIS IS WHY. I don’t mind being proven wrong or looking at things from different perspectives. Lord knows that my friends rarely agree with me.

    And while I’m on this topic, yet again, I need to call out one more time that the world, and definitely not our worlds revolve around Truth. He was only one of 7 photos on Curbside Confessions, just he was the one who got the most bent about it.

  15. Truth Hawks Says:

    “But it wasn’t about YOU it was about your hair”

    Ah actually no, it was about me because before they blogged Hawks said this on plurk:

    “HawksRock yeah honestly i am lil. I mean we had a discussion last week whether we should blog what a douche he was, and decided we like him

    HawksRock enough to just take the high road, and forget about it. It appears that obviously he hasn’t forgotten about it, and if he really wants

    HawksRock to discuss the issue, it makes me a lot more inclined to blog about it since he just made it a public rather than private issue for him.”

    Just illustrating the fact, it’s not about hair 🙂

    • hawksrock Says:

      Where did you see me say anything about that on here? For the record, as you very well know, that context your pulling off my public timeline was out there in reaction to your plurk 30 minutes before it where you slammed us up and down for something we didn’t do on your sim. You continue to create this fiction for everybody about what happened there, which is complete BS by trying to pull lil things outta context. I didn’t write a post on here about it, nor did it have anything at all to do with that one freaking slide about your hair. They are unrelated. I, along with several other people who saw it, do think you were a complete asshole that day, but it had nothing to do with this.

      The reality is that you are blowing something that wasn’t a big deal into a huge deal, and frankly loving every minute of it.

    • I meant the initial plurk about the hair on Friday by JB – the one where she said something about buying your hair etc blah blah. I should have been more clear. Yes this post is about you I am aware of that fact, why the hell do you think I read it 🙂 LOL no JB and Hawks know I read their blog.

  16. Truth Hawks Says:

    JB why you are eluding from the facts? You know its not about the “Curbside Confessional”….you got bent out of shape that I asked you to leave the sim after you were chat spamming my customers and started plotting your revenge “whether we should blog what a douche he was”.

    Let’s get this straight
    1. You go to sim with 4 friends and annoy my customers for an hour. I didn’t agree with it, you get bent out of shape.
    2. Following week, same day (release day) you say that you are gullible and my hair is “exactly the same” as last week.
    3. You create a pic for your blog comparing my hair.
    4. You plurk that I’m threatened, paranoid, a douche, diva, stick up my arse etc amongst other things
    5. Now the issue is I have a private timeline
    6. Then a blog saying people don’t defend me, they are just sheep.

    Why not pick something and stick to it, it would sound more convincing.

    • ♥JellyBean♥ Says:

      Okay let me help you here but this is the last time because it’s getting really ridiculous now. So after this just fight with yourself cause I’m tired of the circles.

      1. Yes, I did go to your sim last week to buy hair. (Please review your transactions if you need to prove this, I’m too tired to research more for you tonight). Yes I was there with my friends, we were sitting at your table and talking to others. We weren’t rude in my opinion and most people, in fact ALL that we conversed with thought we were funny. I never once got bent with you. Also I do not believe it was an hour, but that’s not neither here nor there.

      [18:49] Truth Hawks: jb i dont care if you hang out and talk amongst yourself, but ppl do find it annoying when there are bunch of twits imming ppl as they tp in
      [18:50] JellyBean Madison: I swear truth we did never IM’d anyone
      [18:50] Truth Hawks: sorry open chat
      [18:50] JellyBean Madison: can you show me the complaint, just remove name, cause I honestly did not have one person get nasty, rude or mean towards us

      It ended there, you didn’t reply. You had already tp’d out and we left just as you wanted us to. Nothing after that happened. So please explain to me where I got bent cause Sir, I’m not seeing it.

      2. Yes I plurked that I felt “gullible” for buying a style that was similar to other ones you’ve recently released. The point is, again, I’m not blind, I knew it was similar before I hit the “pay” button. I liked it, I bought it. Does that make me feel gullible for not talking myself out of a purchase like I normally do? Yes, yes it does. Do I have a right to say that? Yes, yes I do. I did actually say “exactly the same” as you quoted me as saying everywhere but I did take that back as I looked closer because you were right, they aren’t “exactly the same” but yes, they are similar.

      3. I did not create that pic. Hawks did, thank you very much.

      4. I never said you were “threatened”, “paranoid”, “stick up your arse”. I don’t remmy saying “douche” either. I did however plurk:
      on August 22, 2009 at 02:09AM
      JeℓℓyBean™ asks exactly when did *you* become a diva? http://www.plurk.com/p/1np7ot with no mention of Truth, Troof or the Truth brand name. If I’m mistaken about the other names, please provide links where I said such and I will gladly review them.

      5. I don’t care that you have a private timeline, more power to you. The only issue I have is not being able to respond to crazy accusations that you make on said private timeline. Even after I finish this comment though, that’ll be absolved because this is my final say on this matter.

      6. Again, Hawks wrote this blog post, not me. I said I would not blog this crap, no matter what. I do agree with a lot of his points though. It seems like, and I say “seems” here because I do not have hardcore proof of why you do what you do, but it seems like those that disagreed with you were removed from your timeline. That leaves who? Only those that agree with you? Call them what you will… “my friends that agree with me” “fangirls” or “sheep” I don’t care.

      You want me to pick something and stick to it? I have from the beginning. You are the one who keeps trying different angles. I’ve addressed every single one that you’ve thrown at me. If that is not satisfactory for you, so be it. There isn’t anymore I can say or do to make you feel better about yourself and you don’t need me. You have “friends” that can help you with those issues.

      • Truth Hawks Says:

        JB in total you and Hawks have plurked about me 10 times (5 each) either directly about me or including me, in the last 2 weeks since being at my sim. I have the honour of appearing on your blog twice since then. Who do you think is blowing this out of proportion.

        I will reiterate that everyone had free speech on my plurks until it died down and I went private. I have plurked regarding your behaviour 2 times (once not mentioning your name).

        I think I removed 2 people just as you did too. It’s the same old Jellybean, you are above it, hands are clean of it, you like drama but of course you don’t start it, but here we are on YOUR blog.

        There is no angle on my part, its freedom of speech, you are allowed to say your piece and so am I. Sure I’m in the “public eye” doesn’t mean I have to stay quiet when ppl are slinging mud.

  17. Truth Hawks Says:

    oh sorry Hawks, the events are totally unrelated. Wow such is my luck I have so much to do with you in a matter of 2 weeks…funny that. You know nothing about me, who I am, what I enjoy. Hence why I don’t find it amusing when you sit on my sim with your buddies, YOU may think its funny, but I don’t so get over yourself.

    Not sure where I ‘slammed you up and down’ lol I don’t think I have ever called you a rude name etc that seems to be your department.

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